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August 24, 2004

Comments

Renaissance

No matter what's happened of the judges......Nemov has been won the REAL METAL of all his fans heart....on 08/23/2004 it has been shown how's the people love Nemov... I beleive that he did the best. All athletes in 2004 Olympic did the best too!

Jamie

Duh, excuse me, but you put yourself to Yang tae young's shoes instead. You think Paul Hamm's the only one who came to Olympics yearning to win gold medal and all the others came to have fun? No, Sir. They had prepared for the Olympic for four years. Hoping to prove themselves, play fair, get what they deserve, and to bring honour to their nation. Sure, and they would love to give their earned gold medal to another person,
Wouldn't you? People are saying that judges are judges, you get what you get, some people get more, some people get less, but so what? I suggest to Paul Hamm that he should go and buy lottery if he wants to deal with chances. Any how, I want to express my deep disappointment in many people being totally unfair and inflexible. Paul Hamm should give back his round thing coated with gold that is useless to anyone but to a person who knows he had won fairly and justly.

LirianFae

Actually, I pointed out that this also seems unfair to Tae-young. I'm sure he feels totally screwed right now, I sure as hell would. But if he was Paul Hamm, would he give back his medal? Probably not. Nemov also knows he was bent over. This is hardly the first time something like this has happened, either. But is it Paul Hamm's fault?

Again, that's the problem with judged events. Judges make mistakes. I didn't say it was fair -- it's NOT fair. But how on earth else are you going to judge gymnastics? And remember... a review of Tae-young's routine shows that the judges also did NOT deduct for a mandatory deduction, one that they missed, one that would have cost him 0.2 for doing 4 hold moves when you are only permitted 3 of them. What if Tae-young had won, and the next day, someone had reviewed the tape, seen that error, and gone in and demanded that those deductions be taken and he be stripped of the gold? Would THAT be fair? Or would people say, "Well, it's not HIS fault that the judges messed up, why should he be asked to give up his medal after the fact"? This argument has come up time and again in all kinds of judged competition, from ice skating to gymnastics to martial arts.

I wouldn't argue that the judging is sometimes screwy, sometimes has blatant flaws. I wouldn't argue that this Olympics had some VERY flawed gymnastics judging, and that the FIG needs to seriously investigate and overhaul their judging system.

I also feel that's where the responsibility lies, and not on the competitors themselves, who have no control over it. There can be no question that those people who get unfairly, unreasonably low scores are screwed. Tae-young and Nemov are the most obvious victims now, but there were others, and it sucks for them all.

I was only pointing out that blaming this on Paul Hamm in some way is just as unfair. Hamm is not responsible for judging errors. Hamm went out and did what was required, and walked away being told that on that night, by that set of rules, he was the best gymnast.

What if you went to a casino and won $100,000? What if it turned out, 2 days later, that someone else had put loaded dice on the table, and that you won using flawed dice? Is that your fault? Should you give back that $100,000? Or should the casino be to blame, for not realizing that the dice were flawed? How about the other 4 people on the same table with you that night, do you owe one of them the money?

TDPepper

Paul would have been remembered far longer into the future for having the moral fiber to give up the gold than he now will be for essentially "stealing" it on a technicality. I know what it's like to have worked for years for something you want. It's no excuse for him, to now listen to all the people whispering in his ear to keep it. I believe that in years to come he will know in his heart that he did not win that medal. I can only hope that he has the maturity and fortitude to one day give the gold back. Too bad his parents apparently never instilled in him the value of treating others precious and doing unto the what you would want them to do to you...

LirianFae

Easy enough to ask someone else to do... but would you do it yourself?

How about the Brazilian marathon runner who was in the lead yesterday? A man runs out of the crowd, grabs him, pushes him off the course. He ends up 3rd. Did he lose enough time to lose the gold? Should the gold medal winner give up his medal?

Of course, there were several miles left in the race and there's no way to know what would have happened if he had NOT been pushed off the course. The Brazilian himself feels that this cost him his shot at the gold. Brazil filed a protest, it was declined. de Lima said, "Never mind the result of the appeal. I'm very happy to have won this medal." Should the Italian winner give up his medal?

I see what you're saying, I really do, and obviously it would be this huge noble gesture on Paul Hamm's part. I would be as moved by it as anyone else, and would elevate the man to a near-saintly status in my mind, for his incredible selflessness and sense of fair play. He'd become a cultural icon of sportsmanship.

However, in the end, he is just a man. Not a bad man, just a man. A man who was told that the FIG, having certified the scores, refuses to change them, so he is still listed as the winner. A man who was told that the IOC refuses to change the results of an event whose results were certified by its international governing body. A man who also knows that, in addition to to the 0.1 that Tae-young deserved but did not get, there is a deduction of 0.2 that was not assessed either. For as many reasons as you can give for him to give up the medal, there are reasons why he should be able to keep it.

I just think that most people would have a really hard time being THAT noble and THAT selfless if they were in his shoes.

meggs

Can someone help me on a research project over paul hamm's medal controversy???

Casyle

I'll never understand why some people insist that Hamm should hand over the gold because he didn't earn it. Hamm did earn it!

I say Yang Tae-Young should be giddy he even got a medal! Some people did the math shortly after all this, and found that Yang would have been knocked down to 4th place if the judges didn't make their SECOND mistake of the night in not deducting for Yang's illegal 4th hold. That's a MANDATORY deduction, not an arbitrary one. Judges aren't supposed to just decide not to deduct for something like the 4th hold.

Two mistakes happened that night, and it's truly unfortunate.

Emily

DUH, EXCUSE ME wow that is so dumb . Paul Hamm did earn that medal he earned it more than i've earned in my life. If it is causing such a big problem than why didn't they comlain about it before they handed out the medals. You don't award somebody an award, that the've waited for all their life, and then just yank it away from them . To all of you un patriotic jerks who beleive that he should give back you medal. Think about it close you eyes for a few seconds, think what would you say if you go awarded an olympic gold medal and than the court took it away from you. That's not fair. I wouldn't want that to happen to me. I am trying to go to the Olympics only for archery . You don't complain about something like that AFTER you opponet gets to hear their national anthem, and have an olympic gold medal around their neck, you just don't do that. i really do think you should re think your bain, maybe even get some plastic surgery or something because you brain definatly has some kinda physical damage. yah you know you do. Paul and Morgan Hamm are better than Yang Te Young will ever be. You should seriously think about what i said, even though you don't think that this whole controversy is right you don't have to route for some person from South Korea. It's not like i am racist or anything. But i do support My country and ALL who represent it. FYI i have a little... Okay big crush on Paul and Morgan and I never Knew who they were untilthe 2004 olympics. So when I see them if it makes you feel any better they will win fair and square in 2008 for the Beijing Olympic Games.

Arizona Cup

Wow there's no reason to get so upset over a little deal I mean come on Yes i do think that this was ttotaly unfair to paul and i am there to support his back whenever he needs me to even if i don't know him. I think they are both hott guyz,Yang te Young should have broght this mistake to the judges before the award ceremmony. this was totaly not Paul's fault , and for that i stand behind him in whatever support he needs. I am going to go to the olympics for a sport that's not very popular, and for that i won't mention it, but i seriously think that some people that have posted comments including rennisance, and Emily should trying considering the facts try It wasn't PAuls fault the JUDGES made the mistake, and there's nothing any regular civilian can do about it. paul earned his medal fair and square and that's FINAL. You know renaissance not just yang te young is working their backside of to get to the OLympics. Everybody who goes to the Olympics workes their butt off, and i hope that everybody who really wants to do something exciting in their life takes up a sport they like and that they are good at and win one of those Damn Olympic Gold Medals.

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