Why People Leave Karate

Through the years I've seen people come and go in karate, for a variety of reasons.  Some of them I expected, some surprised me, some stunned me.  Trying to guess at someone else's situation and mindset is of course impossible, but it seems to me that most of them boil down to one of a few simple reasons:

1)  Burnout.  This one is inevitable in anyone who practices and trains seriously.  The body, the mind, the emotions sometimes need a rest, need to shift perspective.  However, burnout does not necessarily lead to leaving karate for good, nor does it have to.  In my experience, that comes when people have invested too much, for the wrong reasons, and cannot go back.  One man I know had his heart set on going to Worlds, and he was good, very good -- it was a strong possibility.  He concentrated everything he had on that one goal, and when it didn't happen for him that year, he crashed.  Hard.  It was years before he entered a dojo again, but he finally did return -- with the condition that he will never compete again.  He doesn't want to go through that again, and possibly lose his love for karate forever.  It's wonderful to have him back, and wonderful to see that he has found a way to a more healthy and permanent path in karate.

2)  Other commitments.  Again, these are inevitable in people's busy lives.  Very few of us have so little on our plates that we never miss a training.  Some commitments can and should come first, for instance, your family.  One woman I know is the parent of two toddlers.  Right now, she cannot arrange her schedule so that she has reliable child care during training hours, and has resigned herself to time away from the dojo.  She will come back when she can, and we can't wait to have her back.  Some people, however, never return; as they pursue their other commitments, other pastimes take over as well.  I think if people are truly martial artists, they never give up their karate completely though, and if they don't come back after taking a break, then that break was just an excuse to move on.

3)  Illness or injury.  Again inevitable.  Sometimes we can work around illness or injuries, sometimes time is all it takes.  Sometimes, sadly, they mean that regular dojo training is impossible.  An older woman who trained when I first started, and got her Nidan at the age of 74, finally gave up because her hearing and eyesight got so bad that she simply could not follow the instructor anymore.  We did not care, sensei did not care, but she felt bad and did not wish to disrupt class.  She still shows up at tournaments sometimes though to cheer us on, and it's always a joy to see her.

4)  Personal or political reasons.  Usually this boils down to "personality conflicts", and it's a crying shame.  I'd love to say that martial arts is immune to political divisions, but that is not true.  Dojos are to some extent businesses, and organizations have corporate structures and hierarchies.  I'd love to believe that all martial artists were above petty infighting or selfishness, but as I've commented earlier in this blog, that's a pretty unfair thing to expect -- that practicing martial arts make you less than human, and immune to human weaknesses!  However, some very fine martial artists have left the dojo, probably never to return to regular trainings, due to exhaustion and frustration from these types of conflicts.  Their loss is inestimable, in terms of skill, experience, and instruction.  These are the ones that I mourn, and I can think of two off the top of my head, with no reflection, that are a huge loss, in my personal opinion.

There's no real "point" to this post, it's merely observation.  We were discussing someone who is gone now, and what a loss we feel it is.  Not everyone would agree with us, but the person in question was a gifted martial artist (if a somewhat challenging human being), and we learned so much from them... we feel sorry for those to come who will never get that opportunity.

Upon reflection, I feel that anyone leaving is a loss, both to themselves, and to the dojo and the greater martial arts community (and yes, this includes the people that I don't agree with, and the ones I hated to train with!!).  Why?  Because each person brings something unique to the experience, and something gets added to the whole.  You can always learn something, even if it's a negative experience for you -- perhaps even especially if that is the case.

Comments

[Chadie]

Very well written about this. I tried to find other reasons, but could not. I think most fit in some of these four categories.

[Shannon]

Nicely writen atricle. Something that came to mind while reading it is the practical aplication (day to day) of what we learn. Not to put down karate, and praise kung fu (I still consider myself more of a japanese stylesd martial artists), but when I was only taking karate, there weren't many situations ( in real life, outside the dojo, and not involving fighting) where I could practice/use what I had learned. I could shut a defiant freezer door with a stunningly high (and slow) side kick, but not much else. When i started taking kung fu, and started thinking in circular paterns, I started to notice how to incorporate these into everyday life. EX: Sit a toddle ron your lap, and try to use karate to remove a drink (sitting in front of him) before he spils it. Karate uses a pt1 to ptb mentality, that isn't practical. Now, stick your elbow to the ceiling, (creating an iverted V with yoru arm, bring yoru hand around the side of the toddlers head, across the front, grab the drink, and continue the circle. That could be a 'dragon" styled technique. Useful for self defense - and practical in everyday life. Karate doesn't seem to offer as many of these. Wish it did.

Shannon

[Chadie]

Hello. This comment is not about your post. I have seen you have a link to my English blog. I have moved to a new URL: http://chadie.nu/dojo/
Hope to see you there.

[The Gringo]

I can definitely see your point on burnout. I started Tae Kwon Do last September, and while I enjoy it more than ever, I don't want to have too much of a good thing.

What do you mean, however, by "political reasons"? I had an eyebrow-raising discussion with my kwan jang nim last night, but I'm not sure what you meant...

[LirianFae]

If you've only been doing your martial art for about 6 months, then you're a long way from the "political problems" area. You can enjoy several more blissful months or even years before you even become aware that they exist!

By "political" reasons, I am usually referring to power struggles. This is an extremely touchy area, not much discussed or acknowledged -- to the extent that I am uncomfortable discussing it. However, I will say that as you rise in rank, so do your responsibilities. If several strong-willed people, of comparable rank and responsibility, find themselves in conflict, it sometimes happens that they cannot come to an agreement. They might co-exist in an uneasy truce for awhile, but sooner or later, something's got to give.

Ideally they figure out a way to work through it. If not, sensei might step in. The result is going to be disappointing to at least one person, and what happens next depends on just how disappointing it is. If no resolution can be reached and the conflicts continue, one or more usually end up so frustrated that they will quit.

As I mentioned above, I consider this to be a profound loss to any organization, even though I understand how it comes to pass and I recognize that human nature being what it is, these types of conflicts are probably inevitable. It means that a dojo loses someone who has contributed much, and who has dedicated much of their life. I cannot see how anyone comes out ahead in that situation.

[JP]

great post

[erik]

Great Karate website. I just started one for my Karate school and your blog is an inspiration. Please let me know what you think of my schools website at: http://ntfa-dallas.home.att.net/index2.htm

[Gregg]

Good article. However, you left out the number one reason why "serious" martial artists leave a dojo. That reason being, the lack of "reality based training." Anyone who takes the martial arts or teaches it for any other reason, is taking or teaching it for the wrong reason. Going back in history, the martial arts were meant for one thing,"Self Defense." While other benefits can and should be attained from training, self-defense should be the number one goal. Unfortunately, most instructors either do not know how to teach reality based training, or fear teaching it, as most students want the training to be fairly easy. Hence, students will leave and the school will close.

[LirianFae]

With all due respect, while this comment applies to some people, some instructors, and some schools, it's by no means a universal truth. There are plenty of people out there who take martial arts for reasons other than the original, traditional military-based reasons, and they can gain a great deal in so doing. Many people today take martial arts for the discipline, for the physical fitness, and for social reasons.

This may not be to everyone's taste or preference, and I'm sure some purists don't like it at all (as in the above comment where Greg says it's "wrong"), but it's the reality in today's society. The martial arts have a certain "glamor" that makes them attractive to a wide range of people who don't necessarily have any intentions of ever using them in a real situation. If you doubt that, just look at the popularity of Tae Bo, which is openly marketed as a fitness program (and before anyone says anything, yes I quite agree that Tae Bo is not really a "martial art", but many of its practitioners think it is).

All that being said, I think that any good martial arts school will stress not just philosophy and technique, but also application ("bunkai", for you karate-ka out there). It is an essential dimension for true understanding of the martial art. However, I do not adhere to the school of thought that says application is the only or the most important benefit to be gained from martial arts training... and if that's all you're in it for, you're missing out on a lot.

[Gregg]

Lirian, I wish to thank you for responding to my comments of earlier today. Within less than 24 hours you proved my point, via your statement, "Many people today take martial arts for the discipline, for the physical fitness, and for the social reasons." Unfortunately, this causes most instructors to adapt to this mentality. As they teach others, who become teachers themselves, the fighting system gets so watered down that it becomes completely impractical. "Martial" means war-like. Martial arts are intended to prepare one for battle. For one to be prepared for battle, they need to be in good condition and have a great deal of discipline. As far as social reasons for belonging to martial arts, those that join for this reason really should consider taking up a "hobby."

[Dreadmouse]

Gregg, I think you're making the same mistake I did when I started taking martial arts.

It completely baffled me that there were some people in my dojo who really disliked sparring. Why would anyone who didn't want to spar join karate? To my mind, it just didn't make any sense at all.

The thing is, though, to them it made perfect sense. These folks practiced karate because they enjoyed the people, they liked the exercise, and they really had fun learning and performing katas. Bunkai and kumite just weren't important to them. Self-defence wasn't even that important to them... it was the art itself that intrigued them.

It took me a while to realize that although these people had a different point of view than mine, it wasn't wrong. It was just... different. Maybe I don't see things the way they do, but I don't have to. Everybody practices a martial art for their own reasons.

You're absolutely correct that every dojo has a different approach to how hard they practice, and that every student should work to find a dojo and instructor that fits their preferred style best. We've lost a couple of very talented karateka to dojos that competed more and sparred harder. Leaving was the right thing for them to do, but that doesn't mean the ones who stayed are inferior. They're just different.

[LirianFae]

Dreadmouse has hit the nail on the head. The argument here is really one of semantics, and there's no "right" answer. If someone trains for a different reason than you do, does that mean they aren't serious? That they're wrong?

I think the point of the original post has been lost, and I'm going to lead the discussion back that way because this argument has already been given plenty of time in other posts and comments.

The post here discussed reasons why people lose their love for the martial arts (temporarily or permanently), not why they might leave one dojo to train in another one. Differences in approach and philosophy are quite common, and usually appear long before the issues I raised above. Usually, they are solved by the person simply finding another place to train, one which is more compatible with their approach and their goals.

In fact, that's really the opposite situation from what I was discussing above. The people who seek another training facility still have passion and desire for the martial arts -- so much so, in fact, that they can't stand to train with people who don't have the same fervor. My post talked about people who don't want to or can't train anywhere, with anyone, and what leads them to that point.

[Gregg]

I, too, would like to stick with the reason for this blog, which is, "Why people leave the martial arts." I am 39 years old. Many men my age wish to start and / or continue with the martial arts for one reason- To protect themselves and their families. I know of several men who have altogether quit the martial arts because they cannot find a school that wishes to simply teach one how to protect themselves and others from "street thugs." With all do respect to Lirian and Dreadmouse, those who go to martial art schools for any other purpose, are destroying the arts for those who do go for the "right" purpose. Yes, there is a "right" purpose. Unfortunately, not only the martial arts, but society as a whole is being "grayed". For many people there is no more right and wrong. The basic philosophy of many is, "If it feels good to you, just do it." This unfortunately has led to an increase in school shootings,sexual deviants,drug use, and a more violent society.

I would like to use a gym / healthclub anology, with reference to martial arts training. In my late teens, early twenties, I was a hardcore bodybuilder (This was in the mid 80's). At that time you had gyms and you had healthclubs. Those of us in gyms were there to truly either grow bigger muscles, get more overall muscle tone, or simply get in better shape. There was no fooling around, 10 minutes sitting on a bench and socializing, etc. Now,we merely have healthclubs. While some people at these clubs are there for the right reasons, which were mentioned above, many are there simply to socialize. Unfortunately, these people take up a great deal of time on each piece of equipment, greatly frustrating those who wish to "really" workout. The same is true in the martial arts. There is no "gray" area. If your number one goal is not street applicable self-defense, you should not be in the martial arts. There is, however, a caviat. There are some sport martial arts schools, with instructors who are honest enough to inform potential members that the classes are geared toward sport, not street-defense. There are also martial art schools that offer aerobic kickboxing classes, so people who do not want to learn self-defense, can still do punching, kicking,etc. In summary, there are schools and classes for those who wish to "feel" like there doing something martial arts oriented, without actually doing it. However, there should be schools for those who are interested in protecting themselves and their families. Unfortunately, these schools get great attendance from those who should either be taking sport Karate or aerobic kickboxing. The result of which is a watered down program, with very little (if any) real-world training. This is in fact why many people either quit the martial arts or do not even go into it in the first place. I have, in fact, spoken to several people who would like to learn how to defend themselves, but have looked at dozens of schools and call what they have seen "fake fighting." Unfortunately, this is what they "in fact" have seen. This is why they have elected not to even take a martial arts class. Yes, the watering down of what was meant for true self-defense has led many too quit the martial arts and many more not even to take it.

[LirianFae]

Again, this is a discussion which has been carried on numerous times not only in this blog, but in many other martial arts forums. Gregg, you've made your feelings very clear, I respect your right to your opinion and realize that you're not going to change your mind.

Neither am I. My opinion is based on my experiences, needs, observations, etc., so it's just as valid from my standpoint. You have known people who don't sign on for dojos, or who don't stay, because they don't learn "real" fighting? I've known just as many people who only stuck with martial arts because they had a dojo environment which helped them overcome their fears and gain self-confidence before they were asked to step up the physicality. I've known just as many people who left dojos because they felt the emphasis was all on brawling, with none of the deeper philosophical or spiritual aspects which are just as much a part of the martial arts tradition and history.

And yes, I've known a few like Gregg and his friends, who wanted the pure fighting, and didn't like doing what they considered pointless time wasting with people who had no spirit.

I'll even go so far as to say I've had to train with a few people that were about as much fun to spar as a limp dishrag and had just about as much interest in training, and on nights when I'm really fired up it's annoying as hell. I've wondered why they even bothered, but their training is not my responsibility, and it's a waste of my energy to get too worked up over it. I get through sparring drills against them and am happy to move on to the next opponent, who I can actually learn something from.

I wish for you what I wish for everyone with an interest in martial arts: the good luck I had in finding the right combination of dojo, teacher, style and students that meets your requirements.

As a final thought, I think you'll need to look for that in a more self-defense oriented setting. I doubt you'll find what you're looking for in most traditional martial arts dojos.

[Angel Zee]

Politics. Yes, politics did me in for quite a while. I'd reached Nidan when Nakayama-sensei died, and there was quite a bit of politics at the time. There were a lot of people pushing for Shotokan to become a "sport" at the time, and in some parts of New England, it was the "You're not really qualified" era, where every dojo was bickering with every other one. you'd put up flyers for your dojo, and they'd be ripped down within an hour by students of other dojos. And everyone was claiming they were the only real dojo in Rhode Island/Massachusetts, and all the others were unqualified...
After being in the middle of that for three years, and not seeing it get any better... I gave up martial arts for 14 years and moved from the area.
Today I'm back in Shotokan, trying to get myself back in shape, with a firm resolve to never let politics affect me again. To my pleasant surprise, it seems many of the quarreling dojos back in my old home are gone, and a diversity of styles in their place.
And today the only concern I have... is trying to perfect myself and my character, through Karate.

[LirianFae]

Angel said it better than I ever could. Hearing from someone on the receiving end of that sort of thing is the best illustration I could ask for, even though I hate hearing about things like that. They even happen within dojos, with students turning on each other. Anyone who doesn't think it could drive a dedicated student away in disgust has never had to see it.

That comment combined my favorite thing to hear with one of my least favorite: someone came back to karate, which is great... someone was driven away years earlier, which is not.

Angel, I'm really glad to hear you're back in the dojo and enjoying it. I'd be willing to bet no one can take it away from you again, either.

[Angel Zee]

You got that right! Now if I can just stop smiling during Jiyu kumite, i'll stop scaring my fellow karate-ka (they don't understand the feeling... what it is to come back...) ;-)